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Msindisi Monthly # 115

April 3, 2014


NUMBER: 115 Apr 2014

PO BOX 1481




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Here we are in April. As we look back over the month of march.

Always we are grateful for the Lords mercy and grace in our lives. We have thankful hearts that He goes before us, He never leaves us, He is our provider and constancy help in times of troubles. He is our maker and we want to knowledge Him and thank Him for all He has done in our lives and wants to continue to do in our lives.

We started the month with the funeral of our friend, Belinda’s, mum, Dawn. Sal was asked to sing at the funeral. Belinda will sadly miss her mum but has the promise of seeing her again as she was a believer of Jesus and has the word says “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the Son of God. John 3 v 16-18

We have been continuing in the usual routine of teaching at Care bear crèche,

Joyland crèche, kids club, discipling, cell group, evangelism, prayer meeting.

Di has been getting the Aussie jumpers out to the hospital and clinic’s as the cooler weather will soon be starting. We once again thank the knitters who bless so many mothers with these for their babies.

Jumpers given at the Clinic

Jumpers given at the Clinic

More Jumpers given at the Clinic

More Jumpers given at the Clinic

Our little Visitors getting jumpers

Our little Visitors getting jumpers



Sal was asked to bring a message at “Coming King Ministry” earlier in the month. Lesley Crickmay has been suffering with health issues but is slowly returning to his usual self. The message was Psalm 69 v 9 “ For zeal for your house has consumed me, and the reproaches of those who reproach you have fallen on me.”

Salvador Singing at Coming King Ministries

Salvador Singing at Coming King Ministries


We had the opportunity to catch up with Kevin and Michelle Edwards and the boys one night for dinner. It was lovely to see the way the Lord is moving in their lives. Also Sal was asked to bring the word to our brothers and sisters in Stanger at their weekly bible study. We continue to pray for all our friends and brethren that side. On the Friday night cell group meetings we continue to go through the foundations of the faith, however we had a pause over the Jewish festival Purim, which shows God’s faithfulness to save his people, and went through the book of Esther together.

Kid's Club

Kid’s Club

Preaching of the Gospel continues in Cibilili and Thembisile has been coming out to witness to the lost. We have been very encouraged at her involvement with the Gospel. We trust that it is a blessing for her also.

Thembi preaching the Gospel in Cibilili

Thembi preaching the Gospel in Cibilili


Phumlani preaching in Cibilili

Phumlani preaching in Cibilili

Sal was asked to help with interpreting for a group from the Cape who were visiting the baptist church and doing ministering in the prison, rest homes, school’s and rural communities. As a result of this we were asked to return to Louwsburg school to help the children with any questions they may have had. This proved to be a amazing day. We were able to speak to all the grades and many questions were asked and some wonderful discussions took place. We have been asked to return once we have returned from Australia and New Zealand to speak on a regular basis.

Salvador sharing at Louwsburg Primary School

Salvador sharing at Louwsburg Primary School

At the end of this month we visited Ncedo and Asimbonge in Newcastle.( they are the children of Bhabekile who was killed). The kids have a week school holiday, so 3 of the boys came back for the week to visit with Gogo. Asimbonge did very well in his first school report.

Di visiting Ncedo

Di visiting Ncedo

At the end of this month we head up to Joberg as we fly out to Australia and New Zealand at the end of the month. We will be visiting family, friends, supporters and Sal will be sharing the word in different places along the way. She has also been attending the discipleship in Alpha village. We have been blessed concerning how much the brethren are sharing with one another, especially Mkhulu, in whose home we meet. Electricity is coming into the area and it has been encouraging to see it come nearer to Phumlani’s home stead.

Mkhulu's Home where we meet for discipleship. He is getting electricity.

Mkhulu’s Home where we meet for discipleship. He is getting electricity.


After Discipleship at Alpha

After Discipleship at Alpha

Nice house in Eastmine

Nice house in Eastmine


Please keep in prayer:

  • Leslie Crickmay for his health issues. 
  • Thabi (Phumlani’s wife) she continues to stay away and have no contact with him. Di has visited several times.
  • For the up coming trip away to Aussie and NZ. For us and Phumlani while we are away.
  • For Phumlani and the family as his mother (Gogo) is deteriorating with her cancer.
  • Thank the Lord for the help and love shown to Ncedo and Asimbonge.


The Shared Fruitfulness

By Caleb Massey

I have three children. Malachi is nine and he was born in South Africa. Abigail is six and was also born in South Africa and we have an almost two year old. He was born at home in America. I like to tell people that two of my children are Afro-Americans and they give me very funny looks. “Are they black?” “No. But they are African.”

So we are looking at this idea of fruitfulness. In Genesis two we have a little more detail concerning what happens than in Genesis 1. We know from Genesis 2:7 that the Lord formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life and he became a living soul. Man is a three part being. It says in the passage that God formed man from the dust of the ground. So the outside part is matter or the body, which we can all see. When the body is dead then it turns back into dust. We have to eat food to keep out body going. It is physical. And then the passage says that God then breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life. Therefore all of us have a spirit. This is not the Holy Spirit of God, it is just the spirit of life. That is the top part. But then it says that he became a living soul. That is the middle part. So every person is body, soul and spirit. You obviously can see your body. The soul is typically defined as your mind (what you think), your emotions (what you feel), and your will (your ability to make decisions and to choose). You could probably say that males tend to lean more towards mind and women tend to lean towards emotions.

God made Adam, which means man, as the first man. And it says in Genesis 2:19

Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.

Now people talk about this idea that Adam saw that there was two cats, male and female, Adam saw that there was two birds, male and female etc. And he finally realised, “Wait a minute! How come I have no counterpart?” May be that is what happened. The text says that there was no helper comparable to him. In other words, Adam realised that he was different to all these creatures. A couple of weeks ago, Malachi (and we have chickens and cats), so we had chicken for dinner and we threw the chicken-bones to the cats and one of our chickens came up and pecked at our chicken bones. And Malachi stood there and said “Dad, the chicken is eating… Chicken!” And I said “That is what makes us different from the animals!” We don’t eat our dead. So Adam saw he was different from the animals. And so God decided that He would make woman. So the Bible says that God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam and He took one of the ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. And the rib which God took from the man He made into woman. We are made in the image of God. God made the guy first. So it would appear that God took whatever He deemed of His image that was going to be put in man and somehow split that between the male and the female. So when the female was made God took the female qualities of Himself and applied it to the woman.

Genesis 2:23

The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”

There is this idea of leaving father and mother, cleaving to the wife and becoming one flesh. Interestingly enough, when you look at Genesis as literature, this is the author, or narrator, making his own comment. This is commentary on what had just happened. So the author says, they will be one flesh. When a man and a woman get married, even if my wife is a very long way from me, in a spiritual sense we are still one flesh. When you look at the word ‘one’ there, the Hebrew is ‘echad’.

Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!

The Hebrew word for ‘one’ in this passage is the exact same word ‘echad’. So when Deuteronomy 6:4 says that God (“Elohim” – plural) is “echad” (one – oneness) it is saying that this is the same kind of oneness that we have in a husband and wife. It is “echad”. That is a strange thing because there are two people, man and woman, but the Bible says “one flesh”. There is a oneness there. Now it seems to me that the oneness is in regard to the spirit of the relationship as well as in physical union. But there is a spirit of relationship that exists between the man and his wife. Another married couple will have a totally different spirit of relationship than I will have with my wife because I married her. That oneness exists only between that one man and his wife. Millions of people have gotten married. I do not know if you have done this but when we got married we talked about our parents. “My parents are like this and yours are like this.” “Well, I liked this about my parents’ relationship and the way they raised us.” “I didn’t like this about my parents and their relationship.” Do you do that? I did that, especially when you start having kids and then you do it. “When I was a kid my parents did this.” But even though we both come from an example of marriage and families, now we are two people who never existed before coming together into one flesh. It is a totally unique relationship. It has never existed before anywhere else in the world. So obviously lots of challenges will be the same, and lots of experiences may be the same with other couples, but you are two new people who are joining into an ‘echad’ that has never existed before. So it is different.

But in the Godhead it is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And that is why I say that it is husband, wife and there is a spirit of the relationship between them. This is why it becomes exceedingly dangerous when you get into divorce and remarriage because now what have you done? You have shattered the oneness that existed and you have ‘onenessed’ yourself with someone else. But the Bible never says that you disconnect from the previous individual. There is always some sort of attachment there. It is a spiritual thing. And that gets messy. I am sure you have met people, in America we are full of them, who were divorced and remarried. They all have baggage. There is never a clean break. If you have a man whose wife has died and he’s remarried, that is no problem. But if there is ever a living spouse somewhere that is divorced there is always baggage somehow, unless it happened before they got saved or something like that. That even applies if you have slept with someone before you got married because it is still a ‘one flesh’ union. Paul talks about it when he speaks of sinning against the body with sexual immorality. It will inevitably cause problems.

Now you could say, in a sense, that the woman in creation was the fruit of man because she came from the man. Men and women have different strengths and weaknesses. If we are going to have fruitfulness we need to understand our strengths and weaknesses. Nobody is perfect. What we will note here is not an exhaustive list. This is a short list.

One of Man’s strengths is that he is the head like Christ. Man is related to Christ. That is a good thing. Men have a greater responsibility. But after the fall we see from Genesis 3:17 that the ground is cursed. One of the weaknesses of man is that he is stuck with toil. Unfortunately I have met a lot of men who are just lazy. There is always this toil and work, or labour. That is the curse of man. The Bible says that in the sweat of his brow man shall eat bread. That is an interesting statement. The idea of bread in the Bible relates to the word of God. Jesus is the bread of life and the manna was bread from heaven which is a type of the word of God. Typically men are less interested in reading the Bible than women. They have to work at it. In the sweat of your face you will eat bread. A lot of men are just lazy when it comes to studying the word. Women are more spiritually in tune.

Just as the man represents Christ, so the woman represents the Church. That is a good thing. The Church is to be a glorious bride. It is easier for me to pick on myself and my gender but when I start saying negative things about women I get nervous. But one of the weaknesses of women is that women can be deceivers and manipulators. Notice it says of the woman in Genesis 3:16 that her sorrow and conception would be greatly multiplied. The Rabbis say that man’s sorrow begins on the eighth day, when they are circumcised. Woman’s sorrow begins at childbirth. In pain she brings forth children and her desire will be for her husband and he will rule over her. This is the result of sin even though there is no pronouncement of curse. Look at Genesis 4:7

If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.

Cain was angry at Abel because Cain and his offering was rejected whereas Abel and his offering was accepted. Therefore God warns Cain that if he does not do well, sin was lying at the door, and its desire was for him but he must rule over sin. The same two words, ‘desire’ and ‘rule’ are there that were in Genesis 3:16. Sin’s desire was for Cain but was to rule over it. The woman’s desire would be for her husband but he would rule over her. The verses reflect each other. Sin and the woman have the same desire; the man but the man should rule over. This is where you get your Jezebels, immoral women of proverbs, church of Thyatira, etc. It is this kind of thing. The woman can, if left to her total own devices, personify sin and bring down anybody.

I knew someone who had an over possessive mother in law. The mother in law was so controlling and possessive that she said that God put her over her future son-in-law’s ministry. He did not agree with that but she was so obsessive and controlling that she tried to get a hit man to assassinate him before the wedding. That is an extreme example. Not every mother in law tries to knock off their son-in-law. But there are these examples in the Bible. In the end it will be mystery Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth. So women either become a picture of the Church in either its glory or of the counterfeit in its terrible disgusting apostasy. Men are types of Christ in all sorts of good things unless they get so obsessive with the things of the world that they are picturing the Antichrist. So they picture both. Praise God for our salvation.

Let us move onto the idea of fruitfulness.

Genesis 1:11

Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so.

When we talk about fruitfulness we have to talk about where the fruit comes from. Fruit comes from seeds. Eve was told that the seed of the woman will crush Satan’s head. In a sense, what ever fruit comes from her body will become her salvation. So fruitfulness comes from seeds. In the New Testament there are two definitions of seed.

Matthew 13:37-38

37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

The good seed in this parable are the sons of the kingdom.

Mark 4:14

The sower sows the word.

The seed is the word of God. Not the money that you sow. It is the word. So in the Bible you have the seed representing both the sons of the kingdom and the word. How did the sons of the kingdom get to be sons of the kingdom? Because of the Word.

As we see in Genesis the seed of the woman is biological so we have a biological seed also. The Church grows in one of two ways. Either through purely a spiritual birth, from an unsaved background but getting saved, or through saved families having children, raising them to be godly that they may have a spiritual birth. So it is either in the context of outward evangelism in the world or in the context inward evangelism with raising children.

1 Timothy 3:2

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

In order to have a spiritual position, as an elder, in the Church there is an absolute necessity for the person to have one wife and not one wife at a time. The theological reason why is that man is the head and the bride is the body as Jesus is the head and the Church is the bride. Jesus does not have lots of brides. He just has the one bride.

1 Timothy 3:12

Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.

Deacons are also to be the husbands of one wife. Elders and deacons must be faithfully married. When you have that, the family unit is a picture of the Church. In my family we are five but we are all unified in that we are one family. It is one family but there are five within the one family. When you are part of a fellowship there are lots of you but there is one fellowship in distinction to other local fellowships. You have your own dynamic. As a family we do certain things because we are an odd mix. I am American and my wife is English. My kids are African. So we tend to have an international outlook on things. Other families that we know that are just American are all American. We are a bit broader but that is just our family. Churches also have different feels or ways that are not necessarily wrong or bad, it is just the way they do things. But when you have that unit of the husband, the wife and the children it then becomes a little bit of a template. You also get this in the Old Testament too. You have the whole nation of Israel, which is then broken down into various tribes, which developed out of independent families. The tribe of Judah, the tribe of Ephraim, the tribe of Manasseh, etc. And they are even broken down into smaller units. That is the same thing in the Church. One gigantic worldwide idea of Church broken down into family units; that is what it is. In the Bible God wants families to be saved. On the day of atonement the high priest went into the holy of holies, actually twice. Once for himself and his family and again for the whole nation. Who did Noah get onto the ark with? His wife and his three sons, with their wives. It was a family. So that is the picture that we get. That God is after family units. So you see this consistently. And even in the New Testament. Why do we say that such and such a person is my brother? We do not say it because we have the same parents but because God is our Father. We use family terminology, even in the Church. It has been that way from the very beginning. The regular example in terms of meeting places has always been in homes. In Romans Paul says, “greet those of so and so’s home.” So it is always home based, it is always family based; familiar stuff.

1 Timothy 3:3-5

3not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),

There has to be a reflection. The Church cannot be run effectively unless the men in the Church are running their homes effectively. It has to be a reflection, one reflects the other. In those days, because there were no independent buildings, they went to each other’s homes. It was therefore easier to see. “Oh yeah, that guy. His home is tidy, his home is neat. His wife seems to be at peace with her position.” You could see that sort of thing. It is kind of harder now. There was a Church that I was part of for a little while. I never became a member there. It was a bit of a scandal there. The pastor’s daughter was married to the youth pastor and filed for divorce. But the pastor was defending his daughter! The end result was that the leadership of the Church asked for his resignation unanimously. They said “You will resign!” Why did they do that? Because obviously he messed up at home. It caused a huge problem. They rightly asked for his resignation. It was a bad situation.

But fruitfulness in the Church is dependent on the faithfulness at home when it comes to leadership. The focus of the Bible is on the man. He has the role of deacon, bishop, elder etc. But the wife needs to be an active participant because she has to be faithful. That is why it says that he must be the husband of one wife. He rules his own household well, having children in all submission with all reverence. That is a partnership. It is a husband and wife team.

Titus 1:5-6

5For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.

So here the children have to be faithful.

Titus 2:1-5

1But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. 2Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance. 3Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.

So he deals with four groups. Older men, older women, young men and young women. But notice that the ‘older women’ flows into the ‘younger women’. So if the man has to be faithful, reverent and sober minded then the wife, like wise must be reverent, not a slanderer, not given to much wine (which means not to be addicted, or a servant of wine), and a teacher of good things. The slander there is actually relating back to ‘women talk’, gossip. Then here is a place where women are required to teach younger women. So when you have a couple that are older and all their kids are grown up they are in a position that they can start fulfilling this role; to teach the young women to love their husbands, to love their children. Now this is spiritual fruitfulness. This is a ministry of the woman; to pass on to the younger generation, to the daughter or the younger women in the Church to love their husbands, to love their children. They should be better at it because they have had more years of practice. But like in all Jewish discipleship, the idea is that the disciple watches and learns everything that the discipler does.

In rabbinic circles it was how you walk, how you talk to people, how you do your business, how you look after your home, etc. It was that serious. They wanted to know everything about how to live like that guy. He is the righteous guy. He is the one who’s walked with God. So with the kind of mindset that Paul would have Paul is saying, “You older ones teach the younger ones to love their husbands, but you do it by showing them.” If they are coming into your home because your husband is the elder, you demonstrate to them how you are loving your husband in your home. You can talk all day long but you have to demonstrate it. They want to see an example. And if they are not these things? What does it say? “That the word of God might not be blasphemed.” The word of God can be easily blasphemed. If there is animosity or if there are issues happening in the house.

It boggled my mind when I moved back to America. I worked in some nursing homes and hospitals. I could not believe the number of women in their twenties who had already been divorced. Twenty-two, twenty-three, twenty-four years old. “You are divorced already? Come on! Did you not stick it out for more than two, three or four years?!” It is crazy! I really was surprised. But it is happening more and more. People are getting married when they are twenty or twenty-one years old and in two years they can be divorced. It is just sad. And the statistics in America say that half the pastors are divorced and remarried. Now what example are they being? What example are their wives being? They are not an example of anything.

Ephesians 5:22-23

22Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.23For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

Wives who are not submitting to their own husbands might as well be disobedient to God. That is what Paul says. You also hear people say, and I even heard this some time ago, “Who was that lady who came out of your house?” The guy was in his sixties, I guess, and the lady was not that old. He said “Oh, I got myself a new wife.” Then he said “You know how they always say about marriage, ‘It’s fifty-fifty’? Nah, it’s more like it is eighty-twenty.” And then the other guys said, “Nah, it’s more like sixty-forty”. I was thinking “You guys are crazy”. But that is the way the world thinks. “When you get married, it is like a business partnership. You do your bit, I’ll do my bit. If you don’t do your bit then I have a right not to do my bit.” Is that not how a lot of people operate? But ultimately the idea is one hundred-one hundred. You put in a hundred percent and she puts in a hundred percent. And if she does not put in one hundred percent? Tough! You still put in one hundred percent. That is the way it is. Did not God give one hundred percent? And are we not then required to give a hundred percent back to God? Our life, our resources etc. Is it sacrificial? Yes. Did Christ die for the Church? Yes. Does the husband have the easier job? No. He is the one who is like Jesus, the one who had to die on the cross. The wife is the one who has to be washed? And that is what the husband is supposed to do. “That He might present her to Himself, a glorious Church, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, holy and without blemish.”

I am quite a passive person. I do not get wound up too often. My wife says to me, “You need to tell me off more often.” She wants me to tell her, “You need to be doing…” And I do need to do it. She is basically reflecting this. There is something in her that is saying, “I want you to tell me what I need to do better. Because I want to know that from you.” And it is what husbands need to do. Not just say “I’m the man! Do what I say, not what I do!” You need to be the sacrifice. So when Paul writes from verse 22-23 he so interweaves the husband-wife relationship with Christ and the Church that you cannot tell them apart. It is so that picture. The husband and the wife is the picture of how Christ and the Church should be. And when you see a well operating man and wife it is such a good thing. It really is a fantastic thing but when you see a badly operating man and wife it is painful.

Let us quickly talk about children.

Luke 2:51-52

51And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and He continued in subjection to them; and His mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Jesus was about twelve and we read about four things in His personal development. Wisdom, stature, increase in favour with God and increase in favour with man.

Spiritual education.

Man = Social growth.

Wisdom = Intellectual.

Stature = Physical.

Jesus increased in all four. When it comes to growing up, children grow physically, intellectually, socially and spiritually. As Jesus was human, God in the flesh, He had to grow up like this. You have to have a balance in these things. But one of the questions I get, because we home school our children, is “Don’t they socialise?” As it that is the most important thing, socialising with other kids their age. My response is that I want my children to grow up to be adults. I do not want them being like little children. So when they are around me, their mother, their grandparents, aunts and uncles, they are learning how to be responsible adults. That is how we do it in our family. But I often hear people saying, “But they don’t socialise with children their own age.” Well I do not really care because my son has his sister. They are children. They can socialise with each other. That is how I look at it. But some people put a lot of emphasis on socialising. That is the only reason you send kids to school, to hang out with other kids. Well, other kids are childish. I do not want my kids to be childish. I want them to grow up and be mature. That is partially the reason why we home school. One Thursday there was a bible study at his grandfather’s house. I was not around but my son, Malachi, went there by himself. He sat there with a whole bunch of grown-ups in a bible study. I thought “Great. He is nine years old but he has the maturity to do that, to go over there and hang out with his grandma, his grandpa, and the people in the Church that are all in their thirties, forties and fifties.” So he is moving into that. You have to have a spiritual education. It says in Deuteronomy 6 that we must teach our children the ways of God and how to grow in the faith. When they grow up they will have to do that independently.

There is an Australian in America called Ken Ham who has a ministry called “Answers in Genesis” and he wrote a book called “Already gone.” In his book he talks about how in America most children, when they leave home and go to university they do not care about God, the Church or spiritual things at all. They have lost it. I am sure it is true all over the world. Why is that? It is because parents are not instilling a spiritual education in their children. So they hit eighteen and get sucked away.

There is the physical side. Michelle Obama is big on this because she thinks a lot of American children are fat. And a lot of American children are fat. Childhood obesity is a very big problem. You need to emphasise the physical but not to the exclusion of everything else. There are parents who raise their kids saying, “You are going to be a rugby player”, “You are going to be a football player”, “All you got to do is get to university and play, play, play and you’ll get signed on a team and then you are set for life”, “Just play football”.

And then there is the intellectual aspect. There is a kid in England that my mother-in-law thought should marry her youngest daughter. I am sure he was a nice lad. But he was pale, kind of thin and spent a lot of time in front of a computer. But he was too far on the intellect and not enough on the other aspects. But some people do push, “Study, study, study, study” but neglect all the other aspects. The kids can quote every fact in the encyclopaedia but they cannot look you in the face.

So when Jesus grew up, He grew in all four of these areas. This is even good for discipleship purposes. If you have a new, young Christian you can talk about all four of these things. You can say, “Look, we are a Church. We have to fellowship together. Gluttony and other abuses are not helpful if you destroy your temple. You always talk about Spiritual things but there is also a certain mental renews of your mind also.” So all these things interact together and then when a child grows up in a godly family and you have these four things, you are going to have a stellar kid. But this is long term fruitfulness. It is a long road to travel. You have fruitfulness in Marriage, fruitfulness in children and fruitfulness in church.

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